Tim - Site Editor - from 2018, We had a local company gives us a price for CW windows equal to the PGT quote and the bid came in about the same price as the 14K from CWS. So I think you have to good options, so kudos to you for that! Custom Window Systems Wind-Pact Plus vs PGT. My question has to do with double pane windows and they have to be hurricane glass. Dane - Site Editor - from 2017, We are in the process of having hurricane impact windows and doors installed in our home in Southern FL. Custom Windows Systems has manufactured high quality windows and doors since 1986. Two quotes so far: Karlovy, who or neighbors used and liked, but we have a few Simeonton windows and the vinyl frames in the south windows are chalky (it's only been 5 years since install--non south facing windows are fine). 8 all those windows are high performance glass package with Solar Zone elite. Lisa - Homeowner - from 2016, Lisa, I don't know much about Storm Tight, I did a bit of checking and they seem ok, I noticed a few people had some negative reviews that centered on slick sales presentations and poor customer service, but that doesn't mean much. Custom Window Systems is a Florida based vinyl and aluminum window manufacturer that specializes in both impact and non-impact windows. (Im assuming Florida because of your mention of CWS and PGT). If I think of anything else, I will be sure to follow up with an email. Feel free to shoot your bids over to me and I'm more than happy to provide you with my take on what you have. :) Thank you again! CWS, as they are often referred to, is regarded as a solid manufacturer of impact windows (and non impact windows) that is roughly on par with PGT. Has anyone used Weather Tite Windows out of Tampa, FL? Custom Window Systems (CWS) is an established hurricane impact window and door company located in Ocala, Florida. We fell in love with the product claims, the low heat transfer and easy operation. So what series would you recommend from CWS and PGT that I look into? CWS Windows get 4.2 out of 5 stars based on the 36 CWS windows reviews below. Tim - Site Editor - from 2018, Hello Tim, Ive been on your website and really appreciate the education that it provides. Wincore Estimate: $43.4K (using CWS patio sliders) They are particularly known for their "hurricane" windows or impact windows for coastal homes. We are being ignored unfortunately. If it were me, I would turn to the quality of the installers as the deciding factor. Take care of the installers and treat them good it all works, out in the wash. My crew was Anthony and Justin a small crew, with may years of experience whom explained every step and took pride. PGT makes a PremierVue series that isn't bad, and if that is too high as far as cost, look at their 500 series. Likewise the Simonton Storm Breaker Plus is a solid impact window/door as well. If the AmCraft bid is only $3.5K above CWS though, the CWS bid might not be out of line. Here's what I would do, call up PGT and see who their local rep is in your area and have them give you a bid. . Patio Door Reviews | Storm Strong Series I noticed that many people had asked about those windows in 2016 and was wondering if you have any better feel for the product? Also, I'm not a big fan of using PVC windows in the south. I have not heard of many issues with CWS windows. Any advice would be highly appreciated! (assumes medium patio door and normal installation), Hi Dane, I purchased a condo with a CWS dark brown vinyl storm door which has 2 vertical glass sections, with the bottom section moveable to accommodate a screen. Basically he offered the CWS 8100-SH (I guess that means single hung) for 11 windows (the seven regular-sized I mentioned earlier and the smaller kitchen window and 3 bathroom windows at the no-discount price of $18,539, good for a year. $8400 for 11 impact windows is a fair price IMO. We liked the Simonton product slightly better, but most important, we found installers with great history and recommendations. Undoubtedly, the Soft-Lite Imperial LS is a great vinyl window, but CWS makes a very good window as well. DO NOT BUY PGT WINDOWS! I know that CWS makes a good impact window. I was wondering what replacing it cost. I am leaning towards the CWS windows but I wanted to find out if $12,000 is reasonable. Andersen offers 35 different windows types with multiple operational styles, color options, wood frame types, shapes, and custom made windows that come with advanced security features. I would always go with a more known brand when in doubt because there is more data available to make your decision. And yes, you were right, CWS would need like a 4 to 6 month lead time for the windows. It sounds like the opening is probably not standard so this is probably the reason (one of them certainly) for the high cost. I signed late yesterday evening. I would put them both in the quite good category and I think they both offer a nice long term value for your money. I only looked as far as some online reviews and saw nothing to like about them. If your In Central Florida Orlando & Tampa Offices. (I am only looking at non-impact). Thank you Elizabeth! The majority of the windows are 32 by 70. Product Type Windows Narrow sightlines, custom configuration and sizing that scales to your needs there are plenty of reasons to love our window line. CGI. I'm no expert, only sharing what I read. " Okna, Sunrise, Soft-Lite and Wallside. Our PGT Custom Windows + Doors manufacturing, glass plant, and delivery facilities are located in North Venice, FL and Ft. Myers, FL. Dane - Site Editor - from 2016, -- Estimated CWS 8200 Costs: $800 to $1,050 installed -- When I had companies out to quote, I asked about aluminum frames and was told you could only do aluminum in new construction. The Simonton is actually not a bad window, it's a decent middle of the road vinyl window, although I'm always very wary about the installation you might be getting from the subs through HD. (assumes medium sized window and normal installation), Tim, I have a quote on the Coastal version of the Simonton 6100 series. I'm wondering, what is your opinion regarding the 8200 series. I'm in FL. Assuming the installation quality is equal, I'd go with the less expensive option. Thank you. Are single hung windows (which FHIA said are the only kind they deal with) much better than double hung? All windows will be single hung. I am just going to pray that all goes well and I have a positive experience! Air infiltration rate, U-value, design pressure would be the three data points I would look at Dane - Site Editor - from 2019, Hi Tim! Linda - Homeowner - from 2020, Linda, the pricing sounds good; about what I'd expect to hear for a project of this size. To be honest, I didn't even know they offered a Coastal version of the 6000 series. Does Low E windows make a room too dark? I will say that since the pandemic, the manufacturing attention to detail has suffered across the board. Unfortunately Fla. and impact product in general is not well represented by window pros here on the forum. Across street from ocean. Typically, the mid range window series is going to offer the best long term value. Tim - Site Editor - from 2018, -- Estimated CWS StormStrong Costs: $9,00 to $1,200 installed -- PGT Custom Windows + Doors main competitors are Agc Glass Company North America, Carpenter Technology, and Air System Components. PGT Awning Windows Winguard Aluminum AW740 The estimate from Zager (CWS bid) is approx. CGI Impact-Resistant Windows & Doors: Sentinel by CGI. $125 more per window for the SLthat's a tough question, I think it's right there on the borderline whether that's worth it or not. (1) 52 x 38 single hung You don't need to sacrifice substance for style; we design each window for smooth operation and quality performance. Look for the window with the best leak performance and you might be one step closer to avoiding buyer's remorse. One downside to the CWS is no double hung because it's more difficult to make them hurricane code complaint. 600 Series | 8000 Series "Need personal recommendations for a business that sells & installs PGT hurricane impact home windows.". Founded in 1980, PGT Custom Windows + Doors is the nations leading manufacturer and supplier of residential impact-resistant windows and doors. Or Paradise Exteriors? Everyone knows PGT. Vinyl Impact Windows are impervious to salt and the salt-air corrosive enviroment of Florida. Do NOT do business with PGT.I am at the point of just replacing every defective window with a different brand ..this is so unfair and unprofessional and poor business standards. Are seal failures not covered as part of their warranty? If you have any questions or if youd like me to recommend my local window distributor, dont hesitate to reach out to us. We too are trying to decided between the vinyl vs aluminum PGT Winguard windows and doors. Use a private browsing window to sign in. Once you do that, then I think you'll have the information you need to make your decision. I would probably compare it to the PGT5400, which I also like. Give me your ideas, thank you. I would get a few more bids to see how they compare. Hurricane windows and doors protect against flying debris. CWS 610 Series: $750 a window Have a question on window quotes, prices, or reviews? This hurricane window can be ordered in a number of configurations, including a single hung, casement, horizontal slider and picture window. Dane - Site Editor - from 2022, Hi Dane I'm looking at CWS.CC Windgaurd plus 8000 series. Tim - Site Editor - from 2020, I live in the Tampa Bay area and I'm having my vinyl windows replaced. Also, see if you can find someone local who sells the Simonton Stormbreaker Plus Series. The other affordable hurricane window that is available throughout Florida is the StormBreaker Plus from Simonton, if you google "StormBreaker Plus Jacksonville Florida", or whatever city you live in, you should be able to quickly and easily find a contractor who carries this brand. I trust the contractor doing the installation. When there is a spread like that, something is usually incorrect or behind the scenes wrong. One big issue with patio doors is whether the door has to be custom made for the order. They will be removing all the old windows and installing all the new ones clean up delivery building permit, all included. Thank you, Shar. I know that CWS has a good rating when it comes to their impact windows. I would go back and tell them if they can do it for $10,250, you will sign today and see what they say. I've personally installed hundreds of them (thousands? Originally the builder told us we had to use Custom Window Systems but now we have a choice of either CWS or PGT. Thanks in advance for your assistance. The quotes are for six 73 x 52 windows (in three pairs across the front of our home). Typically, HD has great prices, but I would go somewhere else for the installation, the big box stores don't have a very good reputation for the subcontractors they use (not always the case, but I wouldn't take the chance with my home.) Meredith - Homeowner - from 2018, Meredith, I like all three bids and windows you have and good work on getting the bids as low as you can get. CWS Windows Prices I am planning on going with non-impact windows, and after getting 11 quotes (don't believe anybody who tells you to get only 2 or 3: this does NOT apply to Florida. Marie - Homeowner - from 2016, Marie, the 8200 is quite a nice impact window, assuming you like how the window looks. All in all, if you like and trust the people doing your installation, I think you are choosing a quality impact window for your Florida home! Here is an article that talks about how to do it. What else can you do, really? Of those of you who have installed PGT Aluminum Winguard windows, what color did you choose and are you happy with them. $8800. One is using the ESW Elite and the other CWS Windpact Plus (assuming this is also the glass they use in aluminum windows and doors, they have not clarified). Elizabeth Keough - Which company did you go with to install your windows? Meredith - Homeowner - from 2018, Meredith, I agree that the CWS bid is too highalthough honestly I don't know much about your project. Ron - Homeowner - from 2020, Hi Ron, my top picks for storm windows and doors include the Sunrise Coastal series, Soft-Lite Barcelona Impact Series, Soft-Lite Armor Impact Series, PGT WinGuard series, Stanek UltraExtreme series, CWS Windpact series, and the Simonton Stormbreaker series. Laurie - Homeowner - from 2018, Laurie, Both CWS and Simonton have relatively strong reputations in the industry. Two very large picture fixed windows and 4 fixed transoms. I googled "ews impact windows reviews" and very little came up. What style shutter with my Tudor Revival? That is as important as picking the best windows. I have been following your website for sometime and have read over your reviews of various companies. "I just got quotes on windows from Paradise, Window Wall and PGT from Home Depot.". Concern is that youngsters and people older than ourselves would have tremendous difficulty using these doors. Thank you in advance and I appreciate your advice and assistance. Violi - Homeowner - from 2020, Violi, you should definitely break the contract to give yourself some time to find out what the fair market price is for your project. I would let the specific window series data drive my decision. He says that CWS does not have this perimeter trim thus showing more glass. I was going to contract with a local Diamond rated PGT Dealer (Weather Tite) and then Paradise Exteriors offered to drop their estimate for the Soft-Lits to almost the same amount. There is less than $2000 difference in total cost from two contractors, one using CWS and one using Simonton. Kind of a bulky frame. One 62 x 36 and Guessing you meant CWS in this case? (assumes medium sized window and normal installation), I'm in NE Florida and have 20 windows of varying sizes, along with two sliding glass doors, both rather large. PGT: WinGuard Hurricane Windows & Doors. Not certain on that cpartist. local companies. In terms of quality windows on a budget, I think you are on the right track! The company we bought the window/sliders from does not like going thru all the trouble to replace and then reinstall.they can charge me whatever price they want for labor. Call Doug Ramsey at Sequel. You guys are making me nervous! I saw many positive reviews on other sites. Tim - Site Editor - from 2016. Read More Headquarters PO Box 1529, Nokomis, Florida, 34274, United States Phone Number (941) 480-1600 Website www.pgtwindows.com Revenue $1B Industry Building Materials Manufacturing My understanding is that the Durashield is Soft-Lite's entry level impact window. I know that PGT is in our budget but suspect the others wont be. WINGUARD ENERGYVUE Dyke Industries, Inc. Elevate Windows & Doors LLC. We need 15 windows in all -- a combination of picture, casement and double hung windows. I know that the Softlite are among the best vinyl windows. Most times the factory will pay for only the window and force the homeowner to use only it's factory sponsored labor (at a high rate) to try to offset the loss of product value. I think the Simonton VantagePointe window is pretty good, but I would see how much you can get the CWS dealer to come down on his price and see if you can't get it to closer to 10K. Also find a Simonton dealer and get a bid on their Stormbreaker Plus. Can you suggest a mid range price vinyl windows? Headquartered in Ocala, Florida, the company has been in business since 1986 and serves most of Florida through dealer networks -- i.e. Custom Window Systems is a vinyl and aluminum window and door manufacturer that specializes in both impact and non impact products. I'm impressive with the DP50 rating for sure. 2 - 52 x 75 Dana - Homeowner - from 2016, Dana, these two impact windows are pretty close in quality, as are CWS and PGT in terms of quality and construction. Sue - Homeowner - from 2019, Sue, the price is definitely in the realm of reasonable for an impact window. Pamela - Homeowner - from 2017, Hi, in terms of impact windows, PGT and CWS both offer a nice selection and array. I have used both windows in multiple homes I have built in South Florida. (assumes medium sized window and normal installation) *, I live in the Orlando area I have narrowed my search to the final three. Thanks again Dane and greatly appreciate getting your feedback! The first three make both impact and non impact windows that should serve your purposes. Here is a summary of how the competitors of PGT Custom Windows + Doors compare to one another: Ply Gem Holdings has the most employees (9,471). Have narrowed my search down to PGT Winguard Aluminum windows and now trying to decide between single hung and casement windows.Majority of windows are 36x72. Any advice on using CWS/MI vs. PGT products would be greatly appreciated. PJ - Homeowner - from 2019, PJ, in Florida I usually recommend PGT, CWS, Simonton and Ply Gem. CWS Windows prices are in the mid range of other vinyl and aluminum windows. Nat - Homeowner - from 2017, Nat, I don't know anything more about EAS windows than what I knew in 2016. I get that the 5500 series is a coastal impact window. $11,268.00 CWS 610/615 I am also of the mindset to pay for quality. "Are my windows too large fir casement gear mechanisms etc?". My biggest concern is getting a good product at a fair price. I would say the two windows you have bids for are very close in quality. Home Depot subcontracts instllersinstallers so there is a double layer of mark ups. The Windpact series is built for coastal applications on the East Coast as the company is headquartered in Ocala Florida. The CWS Impact STORM STRONG from Window World were the same price: $33, 000 for 31 windows. Eastern Architectural Systems 2. Dane - Site Editor - from 2022, I just got done with a 5-hour spiel from a sales rep for FHIA (Florida Home Improvement Associates, Inc.) who made a big to-do about their being the home improvement contractor of choice for Sam's Club and BJ's. As noted in our energy efficiency section, your local climate will be a factor. I know NOTHING about CWS, so I am skeptical! Loewen: StormForce. I would appreciate any feedback anyone can provide. Can you advise if pricing is reasonable. We hear about PGT all the time and both of my husband's siblings went with PGT on their homes. Dane - Site Editor - from 2018, Hi Dane, I live in Clearwater Florida and would appreciate your advice on my 2 final choices/quotes. So even though the CWS Aria is their entry-level window, you thinks it's a decent product? I would say the PGT is the winner for me given the product and the price. Bob - Homeowner - from 2020, Bob, I have never really heard of ESW, so I can't comment on them. If you don't need impact windows, go with a mid range or premium vinyl series. Tim - Site Editor - from 2019, The CWS 8100 is a single hung vinyl impact window, which seems to offer good quality and value. 1 size H37.5 x W 35.5 Frosted Your Location Where you live should also be considered when deciding between aluminum and vinyl frames. Alliance Window Systems. Soft-Lite appear to be a very good quality product but can't find much info on them and barely anything about Paradise Exteriors, but don't want to miss out on potentially great windows for an awesome price! You should be able to find a smaller company like Ace Hardware etc. One of the contractor suggested Jeld Wen brand windows. Jo - Homeowner - from 2018, Jo, I would look at CWS's Windpact Plus series and the PGT EnergyVue series. I'll let you all know how it goes! " 11 vinyl impact windows in all. PGT doors add convenience and style to any room. Innovation is central to creating windows and doors that are smarter, stronger, and safer for our customers. If you are doing full framed replacement windows you certainly can use an aluminum framed window same as vinyl or wood. I'm working on a budget. Have looked at PGT and CWS but don't seem to come across much info on Pella or Viwinco? They made one heck of an impact window. His lowest price before the rebate was at $13 thousand something and then when I told him we would have to call him back, that's when he came up with the rebate (hard sell tactics to the max). The window has a design pressures of 60, which is excellent. The house windows are PGT 5500 Series. Meredith - Homeowner - from 2018, Meredith, that seems on the high side as far as I'm concerned. A service charge from the dealer to swap something out as large as a sliding glass door panel would be normal. They have not yet tried installing different wheels but have mentioned that. One company claims that the CWS Aria series windows are not good and don't compare to Soft-Lite Durashield. PGT created the PremierVue 2700 series, Anderson brought the A-Series with Stormwatch, and EAS introduced the . Send our site editor Dane your questions, and get personalized answers that can save you thousands of dollars on your project! How about ECO window systems in Florida; how do they compare with PGT? The seals do not hold. We were told it is rated for 150 mph winds. My CWS quote was DOUBLE my PGT quote, so you need another quote directly from a local dealer/installer. ABC Supply is a wholesale distributor of both new construction windows and replacement windows. He was not obnoxious or pushy. Installer is the same person. CGI Windows and Doors 3. Replacement Windows Information and Forum for all brands of windows. HD came back with a revised quote of $8436.95 after I told them I would only do the same 11 windows FHIA quoted me for. I am not sure if I should trust this claim. (assumes medium sized window and normal installation), Hello, we met with an installer and they offered us the CWS 8200 series impact winodws. NewSouth Window Solutions 7. 2 Simonton 6100 Eyebrow W/Legs You enjoy uncompromised quality from the newest advances in . PGT is the nation's leading manufacturer and supplier of residential impact-resistant windows and doors. The CWS window costs, which were for single hungs, were $7,500 total, the PGT windows price was $800 more. What are your thoughts? 1 - 25 x 62 Why vinyl over aluminum? I have looked over the companies and the models you have reviewed and recommended, but unfortunately for me all your recommendation are for those residing in the northeast. Don't forget to check the performance specs of the windows! We've received multiple quotes from multiple companies on impact windows. FAS Windows & Doors!!! Assuming you are comfortable with the company doing the work, I think you have found a good option. Atrium Windows and Doors. Tim - Site Editor - from 2018, Hi Dane,I'm new to the Venice, FL area after moving from NJ. I'm also wondering what other companies I should look at in Florida? One of them evidently has the seal broken. I have the following size windows: 2 each 36 x 49 picture window, 1 each 82 x 105 Picture Window, 1 each 72 x 24 x 12 Eyebrow & Legs Picture, 1 each 36 x 24 picture window, 1 each 96 x 19 picture window, 1 each 36 x 61 hung window, 3 each 30 x 36 picture window, 3 each 52 x 70 hung window, 1 each 36 x 24 hung window Generally though, you can expect to pay between $375 and $770 on average for most PGT Series of Windows. The small business I like very much has a 4 month delay on PGT so quoted me on Cws. I have no qualms recommending them. New custom windows and doors are a great investment with many benefits. HU-3978, I just got quotes on windows from Paradise, Window Wall and PGT from Home Depot. Call them up, get the bid, and compare. If you are considering PGT's - READ the warranty. Patio Door Reviews | StormStrong Series From what I have heard and been told they are the two major players in the impact rated residential window market in Florida. Quote is $9,676. I think you need a couple more quotes to compare it to. I recently put a ton of single hungs into a home in Florida and the homeowner was very pleased. Meredith - Homeowner - from 2018, Meredith, I think the CWS and PGT quotes are worth the extra money over the AmCraft. Karoly's quote was too high for me unfortunately, but I did like the Simonton windows he sells. 4 posts Page 1 of 1. We did a window job together several years ago. PGT pioneered the U. S. impact-resistant window and door industry, and today is the nation's leading manufacturer and supplier of residential impact-resistant windows and doors. Also their sealed units frequently fail. Your prompt response will be helpful because I only have 3 days to break the contract. I am concerned about the adhesion and life of the paint on the vinyl. Yes, they have a lifetime warranty but we have to pay labor every time one is replaced. I actually think it's the CWS Aria a pretty decent vinyl window. That doesn't mean that you can't try and shave off some of the cost of the PGT bid though. 2 size H37.5 x 51.5 Tim - Site Editor - from 2019, Hi Tim, I live in Sarasota FL and am looking to replace all 12 windows in my house. If HD could prove to me that their install crew would do a great job with my project, I would seriously consider that option. PGT Innovations expects to finance the transaction with cash on hand and existing or additional financing arrangements. Thank you. I am SO GLAD I got all those quotes) I narrowed it down to 2. ", I know that no intruders will be able to enter my home. Neil - Homeowner - from 2021, -- Estimated CWS Aria Price: $550 to $700 installed -- CWS produces a range of products, including single hung windows, horizontal roller windows, sliding glass doors, fixed windows, accessories, horizontal vinyl film windows, verticle vinyl film windows, acrylic windows, prime doors, garage screen enclosures and rough openings. It has not been a good experience .product seems ok but the installation has been a diaster!! PS We live about 2 miles from the Gulf of Mexico in Seminole, FL. I would much prefer you spend the extra $1400 and go with the PGT bid. Have a question on window quotes, prices, or reviews? PGT Innovations competitors include Ply Gem, Andersen Windows Corporation, Pella Corporation, JELD WEN and Custom Window Systems. SIX YEARS AGO WE BOUGHT OVER $47,000.00 WINDOWS AND SLIDERS (7 SLIDERS) - as of yesterday I just filed / called for replacement of our fourth sliding glass panel doors - these are the Miami Dade double insulated with all the extras - failing. The 'single' and 'double' refer to the number of sashes on the window that slide up and down. Dane - Site Editor - from 2016, We have 2 quotes for 14 windows. I really would love to know the difference between the two if there are any differences. Windstorm Inspection Program TDI Product Evaluation Index Product Evaluation - Vinyl Fixed Windows Windstorm Inspections Appointed Engineers Building Code Building Products Catastrophe Zone Map Certificate of Compliance (WPI-8) Search Contacts Education FAIR resources Field Offices Forms Product Evaluations Subscriptions Testing Facilities TWIA Tim - Site Editor - from 2018, Dane, I live in an association that requires replacement windows be the same color as the original single pane bronze aluminum. Shar - Homeowner - from 2020, Shar, do I search for "CWS windows in your city and state" and see if any local dealers come up. CWS is a MUCH smaller operation -- Simonton is the largest manufacturer in the business. Susan - Homeowner - from 2018, Susan, I'm not sure if that too high, but it does appear to be quite expensive at first glance. Architectural windows are fixed windows which are available in an extensive range of custom shapes and sizes. If so, that price isn't too bad, but it doesn't strike me as super competitive, at least at first glance. Not enough ratings CEO Rating Jeff Jackson 62 / 100 CEO Rating Winner Jeromy - Homeowner - from 2016, Jeromy, that's a big price difference. PGT Innovations is also the nation's largest manufacturer of impact-resistant windows and doors, holds the leadership position in its primary markets, and is part of the S&P SmallCap 400 Index. Years ago we used Gorell Windows. We have 5 openings, 3 of which require two windows each. The doors are of a very sturdy, nice-looking quality. Would appreciate your steering me in the right direction. (assumes medium sized window and normal installation), I just got a bid on the CWS 8100 single hung window. That is my issue. Dane - Site Editor - from 2021, I have similar cost estimates from two companies. I would definitely get a bid from both -- different reps/companies may have access to different models, get different pricing etc. In terms of the windows they sell, I couldn't say because it looks like they probably resell windows instead of manufacture them themselves (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). We carry a full line of impact windows and all types of hurricane glass from custom doors and sliding glass doors as well as custom windows, picture and architectural. The Windpact also comes in a number of vinyl door options. Perhaps Lowes' or Home Depot? New construction window selection - need help! FAS is coming out today. Deborah - Homeowner - from 2019, Deborah, the CWS Aria seems to be a decent product for an entry level window. CWS Windows Reviews Ian - Contractor in Florida - from 2012, We're looking at Custom Window Systems for our hurricane windows, but there isn't much out there on the company. The price difference is approximately $593. Dane - Site Editor - from 2016, -- Estimated CWS 8100 Costs: $600 to $750 installed --
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